Cipher Brief unique: Retired CW5 Joey Gagnard particulars how Ukrainian commanders are rewriting the rulebook on tech, techniques, and survival.
EXPERT Q&A —This week, after the Russian drone incursions into Poland, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky mentioned Ukraine will prepare Polish representatives on the counter drone techniques that it has developed within the warfare.
Retired Chief Warrant Officer (CW5) Joey Gagnard, was on the bottom in Ukraine this week and talks with Cipher Brief CEO and Publisher Suzanne Kelly about Ukraine’s means to proceed to innovate beneath hearth. Our dialog has been evenly edited for size and readability.
The Cipher Brief: You’ve been completely different components of Ukraine this week and have spent a while alongside the entrance traces, speaking with Ukrainian navy leaders. What are they telling you about how this battle is progressing, how are issues on the bottom?
Gagnard: I’ll inform you that the battle is progressing precisely in the way in which that it has beforehand. As the Ukrainians make advances in know-how, the Russians are adapting. They’re adapting their strategies and techniques for attempting to impose prices in opposition to Ukrainians and vice versa. It nonetheless stays one thing of a rat race of technological improvement right here in Ukraine. Lots of the commanders are tremendous pissed off with the useful resource constraints that they’ve, however they’re doing the perfect they’ll. And I can inform you that the principle factor that many Ukrainians have informed us is that their largest profit – their largest power – is that morale stays excessive, and primarily based on our personal observations throughout our travels, I’ll inform you that that is precisely the case.
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The Cipher Brief: The Cipher Brief was with you in Ukraine this previous May, and there was loads of concentrate on innovation and know-how and getting info as rapidly as attainable from the battle area to the commanders and integrating that into the intelligence stream rapidly. Have you seen something throughout this go to that marks a major change or a development in that since May?
Gagnard: There are some vital advances which were made right here. Since we had been right here earlier than, the Ukrainians have sped up the knowledge movement from the entrance traces all the way in which again to the command facilities the place they’re making selections on use of a few of their weapon programs.
Unfortunately, among the constraints that they’ve logistically, among the weapon programs that they are receiving – proceed to run brief. They’re nonetheless very depending on Western assist for among the weapons programs that they do not have, that they want in an effort to impose extra prices in opposition to the Russians. But they’re making large advances when it comes to how they use info and the pace at which info goes from the purpose of seize again to the command facilities.
The commanders are very conscious that the way in which they had been educated to do enterprise will not be going to be ample, and so they’ve made diversifications to align extra with NATO requirements that they’ve clearly grow to be conscious of by way of their relationships with the completely different folks right here in nation. I’m tremendous impressed with the diversifications that the Ukrainian commanders proceed to make, breaking away from the coaching and the doctrine that they had been steeped in every time they had been developing as younger officers and younger troopers. Those commanders that do have navy expertise, you’ll be able to see that paying dividends for them.
The handiest models appear to be adopting some completely different techniques, trying critically on the battle areas that they are working in and at among the applied sciences that they’ve at their disposal and so they’re making most use of them. It’s terribly spectacular to observe what they’re doing with the sources they’ve.
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The Cipher Brief: We hear lots concerning the challenges they’re dealing with. What alternatives do you see for the navy within the subsequent a number of months?
Gagnard: The Ukrainians are doing an exceptional quantity with the restricted know-how that they’ve. For the Ukrainian theater, the know-how that they’ve developed throughout this battle is totally the perfect factor on the market, the perfect factor anyplace on the earth proper now, for this theater.
Lots of American firms are making nice know-how that’s targeted on completely different priorities. I feel there are some actual alternatives to spend money on among the techniques and among the issues that the Ukrainians are doing to higher perceive that within the West, particularly with among the insurance policies which are popping out of the Pentagon, we are attempting to make our protection trade extra agile and extra nimble.
I feel there’s some actual alternatives to foster these relationships with the Ukrainians and see how they’re doing enterprise, see how they’ve tied trade into their protection ecosystem. I feel that is a significant alternative for us.
Similarly, among the issues that they’ve executed with open supply info presents actual alternatives for our protection enterprise to take classes from, frankly.
Aside from that, I’m nonetheless an enormous advocate for having nearer navy integration, shoulder-to-shoulder with the Ukrainian Armed forces right here in Ukraine. I feel that that will make an outsized impression if we may someway get fight troopers concerned with Ukrainian Armed Forces in any capability. I feel it will be welcomed and I feel it will have an outsized impression on all of our strategic pursuits.
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